GLIThe Glengary Light Infantry Fencibles
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 31, 2007 11:45 pm 
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I was reading an article on the 2nd 95th website, and was surprised to learn that there are no surviving 95th uniforms. I just assumed that there were so many more made than GLI uniforms that there would still be some examples around. Pud has mentioned that there may be 2 cast off 95th uniforms that were converted for use by the GLI in a museum in Ottawa. Definitely worth investigating.

We should arrange a trip this year, and head to the archives.

I bet in some basement or attic somewhere there is a green coat waiting to be discovered. Any volunteers to start knocking on doors? :lol:


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 9:29 am 
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Hi Bill, just read your item on 95th jackets. That's our holly grail to find an original uniform, as with any original 95th kit. There is very little in museums over here. When a soldier was discharged from the army he would take his old uniform with him, and wear it as work clothes. And as they were poorly made they would just end up fulling to pieces and being thrown away. There are some Officers dolmans surving. It is only about 4 years since the first original 95th buttons have come to light, and since then there are about 10 that are known about {4 in the UK and the rest in Spain}. When you think that each jacket had 46 buttons on it you would have thought more would have turned up.
If you think you there may be a couple of 95th jackets in Ottawa, I'm on my way!

Dave 2/95th Rifles


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 12:26 pm 
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I'll be making some trips to Ottawa this year, so if I find anything, you'll be the third person to know! :)

Regards
Bill


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 Post subject: 95th/Glengarry tunics
PostPosted: Fri Feb 02, 2007 1:06 pm 
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Dave,

There is a book that I have (see my rant and rave postings about the "second tunic for the Glengarries") that describes the tunic(s), which I am suspecting is the 'second' tunic (pattern) possibly worn by some Glengarries during the WO1812.

Provided in the text is an artist's rendering of both tunics (produced in 1967). The sketches make them both look like 95th jackets because there doesn't seem to be a 'tail' in either of the drawings. So, they look like rifle cuts to me. The Glengarry green jacket was a battalion cut. Further, when you look at the drawings they both look like they were officers tunics too. One still looks very much like an officer's tunic and the other looks like it once was but has been altered to be used, possibly, by a private.

For years there has been 'suspicion' that "cast-off" 95th tunics were sent here to Canada to be used in the interum by Glennys until their actual tunics were produced and distributed. I think the 'suspicion' exists because of these two tunics that are being held in our archives in the national museum somewhere. They are both apparently in extremely poor condition which is why they are, apparently, not on display. I have been slowly campaigning to find someone at our national museum who can let me in to see them. It's been a three month process to date and as soon as I can get in to see them (man, I hope they'll let me take pictures) I'll finally have some answers and perhaps be able to throw mud in a few non-believers faces :^)

I've been wearing the green for almost 22 years now and never had a chance to go and see these tunics. They are certainly precious. And we too, as you have indicated, when discharged would have used the tunice and pants, etc., for regular-use clothing. It only made sense in those days since cloth and clothing was so dear to the common man (and woman).

Cheers for now,
Pud


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PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 5:30 pm 
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Hi Pud. I've always believed that your jackets were based on rather direct copies. Your jackets I would have thought would have been cut to a Light Infantry stlye. You have turnback where our tails slope away. I can't imagine you being sent second hand jackets. Uniforms were replaced once a year, I find it hard to believe that they would collect all the old jackets bung them in a ship and send them off to Canada. Especially while in Spain or wherever. And I was lead to believe the 95th only supplied you with undress kit rather than regimentals. It's quite possible that a 95th jacket was sent as a sample from which your jackets were then based upon. Still what ever is in your national museum if it's original jacket from the period would be worth seeing. I look forwards to seeing any pics you get.

Dave 2/95th


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 Post subject: castoffs??
PostPosted: Sun Feb 04, 2007 7:10 pm 
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Dave,

You certainly make a very good point. I wonder, then, if the samples that you suggest may have been sent here were numerous? Wouldn't it be interesting to find out that a particularly large number of 95th tunics were sent here to Canada to sustain the Glengarries while their own tunice were being made. Man, if we could only lay our hands on some direct proof one way or the other,.then we could do away with all the bollocks talk,.but then the hobby would have nothing to yammer about.lol

Cheers,
Pud


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PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 7:36 pm 
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Your right Pud, if we had everthing handed to us we would have to find something else to go on about. At least it would stop the twats who come up to you and say "that ani't right".

Right I'll have to think of a new topic to discuss now.

Dave


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 Post subject: 95th uniforms
PostPosted: Mon Feb 05, 2007 11:48 pm 
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Richard suggests that you try the Royal Green Jackets Museum in Winchester England. They also have a website.

Richard will have a word with his contacts in Ottawa and see if he can find those jackets.

Hope this is helpful.

Diane


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 4:26 am 
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Hi Diane, The RGJ museum does not even have a good copy of a Riflemans uniform let alone an original. The uniform they did have on display {they have now got rid of it} was given to them to them by a fancy dress hire company. It was shite, there were hooks and eyes to do the front of the jacket up instead of buttons. The National Army Museum does not have anything either. The Wellington museum at Waterloo has a great collection weapons from the battle and even some uniforms BUT the one which they say is a Riflemans jacket is a cross between a officers coat and a Victorian bandsman jacket. There have been roumors of uniforms stached away. It is believed that the Norwegian goverment during the period asked other allied goverments for every type of uniform form their armies so they could make recignition chats for their own army, so they knew who were on their side. Also after Waterloo disgarded uniforms were picked up and stored some where. If only these thing were true.

Regards

Dave


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PostPosted: Tue Feb 06, 2007 9:56 pm 
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Dave,

When you can, could you please answer these questions for me:

1) Are the "wings" on your jackets Black Tufts or black (cloth) wings or green (cloth) wings?

2) How many buttons per row for Pte jacket?

3) How many buttons per row on Junior Officer jacket?

4) Are the buttons on your officer's jackets made of pewter/lead, or silver, or polished light weight metal (Tin)?

5) Please describe the eye on the back of the button for both the pte jacket and junior officer jacket (ie: are they metal loops or pewter loops and if they are metal loops are they wire or brass or bronze?)

6) how many buttons are on your pte jacket sleeves and are they parallel with the seam (so that the cuff can be opened) or are they simply decoration and running perpendicular to the arm's seam?

7) Are there buttons on the junior officer sleeve? And if so, how many and how are they configured?

8)How many buttons are on the back (base of the spine), if any, on your pte jackets?

I appreciate your help Dave.

I ask these things because the 'two Glengarry jackets' that are hidden somewhere in our national museum archives actually have "cloth wings" denoting light infantry. Our copies have always been with tufts, which apparently are supposed to be more in tune with your 95th rifle pte jacket style. And, they are, according to the drawings from 1967, something between a battalion cut and a rifle cut at the tail. The drawings are really quite vexxing the more I look at them.

I'm going to lay my eyes on these things if it's the last thing I do, because if they actually are 'glengarry tunics' then we have some style issues that we are going to have to change, pronto, on all of our tunice here in Canada,.and wherever else Glengarries are being portrayed.

Oh, research, research, research.it's maddening but wonderfully enlightening and full of revelations.

The "cloth" wings are very puzzling. I wonder if they are cast-offs from another rifle corps in Britain that may have been fortunate enough to wear the green! Shite, wouldn't that be a kicker! Ah-wee.

I look forward to hearing back from you.

Cheers,
Pud


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PostPosted: Fri Feb 09, 2007 7:13 pm 
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Hi Pud, wow a long one to deal with {oh er misses}.

1. We have shoulder straps and black worsted tufts. The Bugler would of had shoulder straps with black wings with black and white fringe.

2. On the OR's jacket there is 3 rows of 12 buttons.

3/4. The Officers have 22 buttons in 3 rows. They would have been silver or plated siver {not 100% certain}.

5. Not sure about Offiers buttons. The original or's button had a steel loop, but our repo ones have a cast loop

6. We have 4 buttons on the cuffs, and they run parallel to the seam, with 3 on the black cuff and 1 one the sleave. Our old pattern jackets only have decrotive cuffs, where all our new jackets will have opening cuffs.

7. There are 5 on an Officers cuff which can be opened. I've seen some cuffs with the buttons on the black velvet cuff and some on the seleve.

8. There are 2 buttons on the hip or back seams.

There is some picture of our new pattern jacket on the kit update page of our website.

Hope all this helps.

Dave


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